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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Laura Arata
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Dale Denham
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX251492516">
<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><strong><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Northwest Public Television | </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span class="SpellingError SCX251492516">Denham_Dale</span></span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></strong></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Laura Arata</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I feel ready.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> I think Dale feels ready.</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Dale </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Denham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Yeah. </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Are you going to ask me some questions to begin with, or just--</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Arata</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I sure am.</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Denham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">[LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">We're</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> here, huh?</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Arata</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">If we could just start by having you say your name, and then spell your last name</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> for us, please</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">?</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Denham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">. Dale Denham. D-E-N-H-A-M. I always let people know it's like the denim jeans. Can't forget me.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Arata</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Thank you. My name's Laura Arata. It's December 12, 2013. We're conducting this interview on the campus of</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Washington State University</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> Tri-Cities. So if we could just start, I wonder if you could tell me a little bit about when</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">you came to Hanford, why you came to Hanford, and what you knew about it at the time.</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Denham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Well, maybe it's better if I tell you when I first came in 1947.</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Arata</span>: Please do.</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Denham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> But as a young person, came with my family because</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">my dad was invited to come up here and start a radio station. And Dad was in the radio business since the '20s.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And his buddy says, boy, this is just a golden opportunity, and dad said, oh no. The war's over and this place is</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">going to fold.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Obviously, he was a bit wrong, but he had been through the Depression and all those kind of things. So we came.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">My sister and I would come up on the train and spend weeks, because they had a couple daughters. And they</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">moved in in '47 and stayed here 'til '57.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">So the station today is KONA, but at that time it was KWIE. And it began in that period, and so we made lots of</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">trips. But they lived in Kennewick, so I really didn't spend much time in Richland. They brought us out to see the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">barricade out here on Stevens, and the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> bypass to even get to the 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">rea. And at the time, their studios were</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">being built, and so they were doing things in the Hanford House, whic</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">h is today the Richland</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> Red Lion.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">So </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I had some introduction to the Tri-C</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ity community. But I came as a graduate student, 1961, as part of a</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">fellowship from the Atomic Energy Commission, which was in Health Physics</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">nd it turns out I was in the first class</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">of graduates of master's degree from the University of Wash</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ington. There were like ten of them, ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> of us. We</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">came and spent the summer here in '61. I got married that summer also. And we became acquainted with the site</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">by</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">much like they did most of the engineers, they moved us around on site, kind of give us a familiarity with all</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">the different aspects of health physics, which was radiation protection, basically, for the people and the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">environment.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And so that was my introduction to the place. But while I was here, the </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">opportunity to get a master's, because they</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">didn't have a master's program at UW at the time, because we were the first class. And while we were here during</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">the summer, a program opened up to get a master's by going back for the second year.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">So I went on back to University of Washington and was able to get my master's. Matter of fact, I was studying</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">rheumatoid </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">arthritic</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> patients looking for ways to use the reactor there at the university to evaluate the gold in</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">these patients, because gold was not a cure for the disease, but it could slow it down and at least make people so</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">they could</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">so I worked with two individuals. I collected all their urine, because we were looking for activation</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">techniques.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And it took me most of the year because the opportunities were great to look to the future, but we didn't have all</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">the technology yet. I was doing a lot of my work using a single channel analyzer and looking at different photo</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">peaks, energy, gamma ray energies coming off of these radionuclides, because we're all full of sodium, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">sodium has a very high ener</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">gy activation product, sodium-</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">24. And so that was a real issue. And I had to try</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">different ways is to subtract that material, or that impact that we would see on the scans.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">But that was the beginning. And so I completed the degree. And then my wife had been born in Long Beach,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">California. Her grandmother was still down there. And so got the opportunity to go to Lawrence Livermore</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Laboratory</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">it was called Lawrence Radiation Laboratory at the time</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">in Livermore, California. So went down</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">there and spent seven years</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">no, five years</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and then came back up here. She developed some real allergy</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">issues. And the kids were still young, small, a couple years old.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">So it was a good opportunity to come back. We knew what the area was like. We had spent the summer here,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">which is a tough time. And of course we remembered</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I remembered from my childhood all the dust storms and</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">the running out to grab the laundry to bring it in because it was getting dusty.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">But I just thoroughly enjoyed the sunshine. And my parents, </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Dad was from Baker City, Oregon</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">, and mother was</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">from Boise, Idaho. So it made sense, in one </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">sense, that</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> they might select to come here. But Mom didn't get along</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">too well in the heat, and so this was not a favorite place. So that was probably part of the equation, too, that they</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">chose not to even go any further, even though their friends were very successful here and sold out, and bought</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">the station in Hood River and then retired, which is what they all did.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">So that was my introduction and coming to Hanford. And I served in a variety of departments</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I mean, by name,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">but they all were basically radiation protection, health physics, mostly applied. In other words, I was dealing with</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">how to take air samples, where to take air samples, how to take river samples, how to measure them, what to</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">measure them for. I got into the environmental arena, which was really my long-term interest.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And so I was involved in the late '60s in the water monitoring portion of the Hanford program, where I looked at</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">the water in the schools, took water from the public schools, water from the wells, drinking water. We sampled</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">water from the river directly. We monitored the river by passing it through detectors. And this was a period when</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">most of the reactors were operating, so there was plenty of activity, and a real challenge to trace that. Where did it</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">go? How wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">s it going to impact the public?</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">But I worked primarily in the 3</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">00 Area</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> until I retired from Battelle in '95. Oh, by the way, that's who I came to work</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">for, was Battelle. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">nd I spent all my career up to that point with Battelle after I'd come back from Livermore. And I</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">took the certification exam in health physics and became a certified health physicist, a diplomat of the American</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Board of Health Physics. I served on the board for that</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">certifying other individuals coming along.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I taught some of the classes here. We started here when this was the graduate school, the graduate center, long</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">before Washington State University became a part of the community. And so I had a lot of involvement in that</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">arena. I just really enjoyed the field because it was broad enough that we could be concerned about x-rays and</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">radiation that you would get externally from contamination, or get it on your body, in your body, so internal</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">evaluation.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">But I was primarily interested in keeping the environment clean, which was</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">A</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">nd I have to mention Herb Parker</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">because he </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">was really the father of the radiation protection, radiation safety here at the site. And Herb called me</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">up one day</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">this was in the early '70s</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and said, I've got an opportunity for you. I think that you would make an</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">excellent candidate to make this move.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And I said, well, I wasn't interested in moving. Well, he says, I think you should come over to my office and let's</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">chat. Well, he had a job in an environmental organization called Radiation Management Corporation. He was a</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">consultant to them, and they were in Philadelphia. And I'd always lived all my life on the west coast, so I wasn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">very enthused.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">But I went, I listened. He sent me back for an interview. I went in December, just about this time, a horrible time to</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">go back there. It was crummy weather. It was wet, dark, I couldn't see anything. But it was a little company, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">they were about to grow with the nuclear industry to supply environmental monitoring support for the nuclear</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">power reactors up and down the east coast.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">So I turned them down. But two years later I got another call and says, gosh, we really need you, and here's an</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">opportunity. You better come. So by '74 I did take advantage, moved back there. And then I think it was Jimmy</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Carter that desired not to reprocess any fuel, and so the nuclear industry, the nuclear power industry dropped off</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">well, at least began its diminished increased places, increased sites, increased utilities going with nuclear.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> So that led to the need—w</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">e had too many people, grew fast, but then</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">A</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">nd matter of fact, my original boss here,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Bob </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span class="SpellingError SCX251492516">Junkins</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">by name, hired me in '67, and I worked with him for almost two years before I moved to the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">environmental. I was in the criticality safety, nuclear safety business in that time. And my whole role was to</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">develop a criticality safety manual that we could use to audit and evaluate the users of nuclear material here on</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">the site—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Battelle's portion of the site.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And that led me</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">then, with that environmental interest, I moved into the environmental monitoring portion in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">late '60s. And that's what set me up for that. I went to Philadelphia, but I had to go find something else. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">unfortunately, in that time period, I also got divorced back there in Philadelphia. And my children moved back to</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">the west coast, to Bainb</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ridge</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> Island.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">So it was now, where do I go?</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> Fortunately</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> there </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">w</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ere lots of jobs. I didn't have any problem finding a job. But I</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">chose to go back to Livermore because I was familiar with the territory and the people. And so I went back there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">But it was only a couple of years, because I met a gal that I had dated in high school. And she ran into my sister,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and my sister gave me an address. I wrote to her, and she called me up and says, what are you doing for</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Christmas? I said, I'm taking the train to go see my kids. Well, why don't you stop here and see me on the way in</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Salem? And we both went to Willamette University. That was where our degrees were from. And I'm still married</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">to her today, 35 years. And we've had a great time here at Hanford.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">When I did retire, I moved</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">well, I helped</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">because she was Vice President of United Way. And so I took on the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">role of the listener as the United Way representative volunteer at the Reemployment Opportunity Center. This was</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">1995, when we had some 5,000 layoffs. I was part of that, only I wasn't a layoff. I took a voluntary retirement,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">early retirement.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And through that I discovered that there were other positions available on the site, and Bechtel Hanford had come</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">in as the environmental restoration contractor. And golly, I was involved in all that sort of stuff. So it was a perfect</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">opportunity to send a note</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I knew the head of the department from my health physics background and</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">membership</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and was offered that opportunity to go to work for them. So I spend another eight years with them.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And then to finish my career, so to speak, I retired from them in '06, and then I got a call from Battelle, said, we're</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">doing all these calculating the radiation risks of former atomic energy workers, and we really need some help.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Could you do this for us? And that was nice because I did it at home. I would come to meetings with Battelle. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">one of my close friends, the two of us kind of worked together, which was great, because we were working at</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">home. I had to buy a new computer and all that because I needed access to much more sophisticated equipment</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">than I had, because I was just a little email and that sort of thing.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">My exciting things that happened here, my work </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">in </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">the nuclear—criticality safety—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">that was one of my first papers,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">major papers, because while I was at Livermore I studied the transuranics, which meant the materials that were</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">heavier than uranium, uranium, neptunium, plutonium, americium,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> curium</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> and so on up the chain.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And I got very familiar because I was working with a group of chemists in California as their radiation safety</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">person, where they were trying to come up with these heavier elements. And so I got to know most of that</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">material. And when I got up here and the criticality safety, because that was a concern too. We knew that some of</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">these materials could go critical with the right conditions.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">So that gave me an opportunity to use that background that I had in knowing these materials, and then to put</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">together, really, a summary. I evaluated the fire safety aspect, the e</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">xplosion aspects, the radiation—i</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">nternal as well</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">as external—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">aspects. So that was one of my real highlights. And that came right at a time when I took the exam to</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">become certified in health physics.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">The next the set of the exciting things were the working with the environmental, where I got involved with nuclear</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">power reactors and in helping develop criteria for their environmental monitoring programs. You see, we went</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">from Atomic Energy Commission, AEC, to ERDA, Energy Research and Development Administration. That was in</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">'74. And then we became the Department of Energy, and that was about '77, '78.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">So I went through that period, so I was working for all three agencies, so to speak, just because one followed the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">other. I think my document that we finally issued on how to use environmental monitoring</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">that is, what</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">techniques and so on</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">were recommended by what was called ERDA at that time, but became the DOE position</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">for all the sites.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And the way we handled that was, we we</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">nt out as teams and visited Oak R</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">idge and Savannah River and Chicago.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And we even went to some of the power reactors, or the early</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">not so much power, but the early development</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">reactors, Idaho, testing, and checking out how they were doing things so that we could then look at a composite</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and gather the folks. We held a couple of workshops where we brought in folks from all these other sites and said,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">you know, here's what we see that ought to be the basic criteria. So that was a great opportunity to explore and</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">see other sites.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">So I visited many of the DOE sites, Los Alamos and Livermore, as all part of that, too. So I had a wonderful time</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and experience in a whole variety of things, handling these transuranic materials that not a whole lot was known.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And you came to know these things by working with them, working on developing shielding, because these</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">materials also—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">not only external radiation but also neutron radiation, which you get primarily from accelerators, or</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">from particular radionuclides that do give off neutrons as they fission. And so those were areas to explore and</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">develop.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">But what a great place to have to have worked, to have had my time, and I really don't want to leave the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">community. We've enjoyed</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and my wife, I thought, who really was</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">after she finished school at Willamette, she</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">stayed there in Salem and went to work. And she's always been in the social services side of things.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And she came here, and she headed up Girl Scouts, she headed up Red Cross, and then got involved with United</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Way. So we ended our careers here, so to speak, but a great place that we have enjoyed. And of course it's far</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">different today than when I came 60 years ago to visit, because the agriculture and all those other things that</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">have occurred as part of the site.</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Arata</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">All right. </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">That was a wonderful overview. I'd like to back up for just a minute to when your father first came here to start this</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">radio station. I know you said he lived in</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> Kennewick, but--</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Denham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">No, he didn't. It was my father's best buddy. Yeah. They both </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">were in Portland radio stations.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> Dad, and his name</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">was Clarence McCrea</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">dy, but we called him Mac. And he chose to come, and brought us along to come and see.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">But Dad refused to come and be a part of the team.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Dean Mitchell's the name I can think of right now. He was</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and Dean Mitchell, I t</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">hink, is still in the community,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> I</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">think he's still </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">alive. And I believe he goes to Kennewick United Methodist Church over there. I hope to see him</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">because I'm going to be speaking at that church here in a couple weeks, actually about three weeks, in January.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">But I know I linked up with him because I had a lot of pictures from all this development of the radio station that my</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">family</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">not my own personal family, but our very close family friends. And we only celebrated Easter and Fourth</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">of July with his family. So you can see, we would come up here and be up here, and in a good time of the year,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">spring. Summer was hot, but these were occasions. Yeah, so my family never did move up here. But they came to</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">visit when I finally settled here in '67.</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Arata</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Visited. </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">. So do you recall any impressions of the community at that time from your visits, what it was like to be here?</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Denham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Well, the things I remember</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and even as a graduate student, the rest of the guys</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">there were four of us came</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">together</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">no, three of us. Three of us who had all gone to Willamette together</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">went to UW for our first year, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">then all came here, and then went back to UW to complete that program</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">they all lived in Kennewick, but I lived</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">here in Richland. I couldn't pass up the nickel each way bus. And I lived in on Gribble Street, which is now where</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> Kadlec</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> has taken over those what were two-story apartments and one-story </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span class="SpellingError SCX251492516">fourplexes</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And that's where I lived that summer in '61. And the bus came right down our street, hopped on for a nickel, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">whether I went out to our areas or the 3</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">00 Area</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">, because we spent one day a week during that time in the 3</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">00 Area</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> in classes in the library, because that was an opportunity for us to learn more about the site, and about the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">profession and the field. So we had people tell us about instrumentation, told us about environment, told us about</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">the various things that were related to radiation instrument development, and different kinds of survey</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">instruments, and so on.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And that was a nice part, because coming back a few years later</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">well, I left here in '62, finished my degree, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">didn't come back 'til '67, so I was gone for five years. The bus system was still here, but the rates were different,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and I wasn't using the bus then. And I went to work for Battelle, and my office was in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Federal Building</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">. So I was</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">able to walk to work. And I'm a busser, a walker, and I've been that all my life. I did that in Portland. So it was a</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">logical step for me.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">The fact that I could get around</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I was not much of a commercial</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I didn't buy a lot of stuff. And so to this day</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">we're not much consumers. And so it was great. There were a few places. I bowled, you know, I played tennis,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">golfed some,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> took advantage of the things that were available right here. I had a cousin</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">couple of</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">cousins still in Baker City, Oregon, so we'd go down for weekends to go down and see them.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And he was a dentist, so he took care of my dental needs early on. But once I settled here with my wife and</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">family, it was no longer making those kind of trips for that purpose. We still had the friendship and relationship.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I enjoyed just the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">well, I guess I wouldn't say I enjoyed the heat, but yet I liked lots of sunshine, and the people.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Enjoyed working with the people. And that was a tough part of retiring. And of course, I took care of part of that by</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">volunteering over at the Reemployment Opportunities Center, which was over in Kennewick. And at that point we</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">had moved out to the Village at</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> Canyon Lakes. It was brand new,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> building that community and retirement.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And so I thought, well, we'll get in on the ground floor. We'll be there and get acquainted, and so on. But then the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">opportunity with Bechtel, but clear out at the north end of the site. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">nd after two years of that long </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">commute, we</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">moved back to Richland. But the opportunities here for my interests, and the opportunities on the job, because I</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">didn't just stay right here, because I was working for Battelle, and we did a lot of</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I suppose you would call it</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">contract research because that was Battelle's primary activity. But yet it really took me to visit other sites and to</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">see how we could improve what we were doing right here.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And I thin</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">k that that opportunity—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I didn't have to go somewhere else. Yes, I did interview for jobs along the line,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">along the way during the time. I </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">interviewed at Los Alamos. I interviewed at Rocky Flats and so on. But this was</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">home, so to speak. And so it was a g</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ood place to stay. It wasn't—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">30,000 or so population.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And the population of Richland, today I'm not sure what it is, but I don't think it's doubled in all this time. But the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">boundary where Yakima came in to the Columbia there was kind of the southern end of Richland. There was</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Richland Y and so on. But I lived essentially all my time within that confines. And of course now there's many</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">homes and developments south, and yet still part of the incorporated portion of Richland. So yes, this was a</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">delightful place, and it still is for me.</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Arata</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">We've heard lots of fun stories about card games and checkers games and </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">different kinds of things going </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">on</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> on</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">these buses. Do you have any fun stories?</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Denham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Well, yes. I tell you, what I used the bus for was sleeping. Being a newlywed and having all these classes and</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">riding the bus every day, I would often take a nap on the way home. And often I'd end up at the end of the bus.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Rather than getting off at my stop, I would discover, oh, I missed the stop, so I got a little walk in.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">But</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> yeah, there were card games on the buses. I was not a bridge player</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">, and that was one of the—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I played at pinnacle and hearts. And we</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">played on the job. My goodness, we kept our scores on</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> the blackboard in the office. Yeah, w</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">e played hearts. And there</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">were other games, I'm sure, but that's what I remember the most. And I remember, also, we were conscious of</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">our walking hour, keeping track of our weight and all. So we would walk over</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">after lunch we'd walk over and</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">check our weight at the medical, go weigh on the scales.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And I was never a smoker, but one of the guys in the group, even the leader, was a heavy smoker. But one of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">guys who was roughly my age</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and matter of fact, he went back to grad school, and that opened the door for me</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">to step in and take his job in the environmental in the late '60s. So that was ideal. And that was another thing. We</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">were paying attention to those things that now the society is beginning to look at. So we looked for those kinds of</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">things.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I think the working environment was great. In my later years here, before I left Battelle, it was altogether different</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">because now the opportunities within Battelle were more in the research ar</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ena. And that wasn't my forte, i</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">t was</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">not my capabilities, not my interest, in going out and trying to obtain contracts and so on. So I found it</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and that's</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">when the opportunity to retire early, I just took advantage of it. My wife had a good job, and so she became my</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">sugar mama to take care of me, take care of us. And we had no children living here. Our children were all grown</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">by then. And so our needs were different.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">But I missed the people. But yet I was interacting every day, because I was there usually half a day. But some</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">days I'd be there all day. And I kept the hot water hot so I could make cocoa, or soups, or whatever people who</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">were coming to find jobs and to look. We did mock interviews and all that sort of thing. So it was a continuation of</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">that people interaction that I really enjoyed.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And of course, when one does retire, a number of my friends have said the same thing. And yet today I don't</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">know how I have time to work, because I'm plenty involved in the community. And so that's part of</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">my wife and I</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">joined the </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span class="SpellingError SCX251492516">Gideons</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">, and so that's been one of our maj</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">or activities in our retirement,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> that we've served as</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">presidents of the local camps on a geographic basis, and also area directors. And we have a state convention</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">coming up this next spring, so we're heavily involved in that. So we have enjoyed that aspect of life here.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And we have a daughter in Olympia, and we have a son</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">well, a daughter and family in Olympia and same in</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Portland. Otherwise the kids are south of Eugene and Cottage Grove, and then a son and family in Albuquerque.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Neither of the sons</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">b</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">oth have PhDs—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and neither are involved in the nuclear business. Both of them engineers.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">One basically what I would call a</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">well, one's a civi</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">l engineer with water interests.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> And</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> other is involved in</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">materials engineering, works for Ball Aerospace, so has a lot of involvement in things that I might have had an</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">involvement in, but not from the nuclear standpoint.</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Denham:</span> Yeah, the things I remember</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—l</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ike I say, we had activities with other </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">families</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> right here. We were involved in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">church. We got involved in the church. I'</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">m in a different church today, b</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ut that's where we raised our kids. So it</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">was a good community environment.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">In terms of what else did I do, well, I think I mentioned I had the children, and we did things with them. We</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">camped. And I wasn't a fisherman or a hunter, so those things weren't part of my interests here in the community.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">But I remember we would do the sledding and so on when the conditions were right, the snow and Carmichael</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Hill, because we lived not far from there, we'd walk over there, and swimming pool.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Back in the very early days</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and let me go back to that for just a moment. Because when we came, McNary Dam</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">wasn't here. So we had to take a ferry to cross from or Oregon to Washington, or we had to take the Bridge of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Gods back</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> 40 miles out of Portland, and then take that route. And we'd usually come over </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span class="SpellingError SCX251492516">Satus</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> Pass and come</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">into Kennewick that way. Today you can take Highway 12 and 14 in all the way to Vancouver on the Oregon side--I mean, on the Washington side, excuse me.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">So that was interesting because this was a free-flowing river. There weren't any dams in that area. And so riding</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">that ferry in a fairly narrow portion of the river was</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and these are one- or two-car type ferries. I mean, this wasn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">a big ferry like you see out of Puget Sound. And it was difficult to reach the shore. Sometimes you'd get close and</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">you'd have to back up and try again.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And then I watched all the highways come in over the Horse Heavens. Because it used to be you could stay on</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">the Oregon side and come around through Walla Walla that way. So it was a whole different</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and it took longer.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">The roads weren't as nice. And so I watched the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">several times they've rebuilt the highway over the Horse</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Heavens.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Because we have family in Portland, we go down there every month or two with grandkids. They're about to finish</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">well, the last one is in his senior year in high school, and the other's in college. And all the rest of our grandkids,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">except the ones in Albuquerque, are all over 21. So our involvement with them is a lot different than when they</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">were younger.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">So yeah, it was a different place just because of the getting around. And we didn't have a public transit. We didn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">have</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—i</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">n those early days right here. But we had the Hanford buses. And you can see the one down there by the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span class="SpellingError SCX251492516">Crehs</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span class="SpellingError SCX251492516">t</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> Museum. And that's what I rode much of the time, up until when I chose my work with Battelle. By then,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">going out on the site, it was about $50 a month to ride the bus then. It was more expensive.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And then I did go through some periods of spending time out on the site, where I'd spend a couple weeks for</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">some activity, work-related, and I would end up being able to take a government car. And I worked in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Federal Building</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">, so it was convenient. We had a motor pool there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">So that’s some of the </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">background. I don't know if there's other things that you were hoping to talk about, or remind me of.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Arata</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I think I just have couple more questions. One thing I wonder if you could talk about, obviously much of your</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">career at Hanford spans the Cold War period.</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Denham</span>: Mm-hm.</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Arata</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> So of course security was a very important concern. Can you talk a</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">little bit about how that impacted your career?</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Denham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Well, it certainly did. And I was fortunate in the sense that I had the Atomic Energy Commission fellowship. In</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">order to get that and apply it at the University of Washington, I had to get security clearance. So I was cleared,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and that happened when I went to Livermore.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Right after I finished grad school, I arrived at Livermore. And because I had a clearance, I was assigned those</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">facilities to be radiation safety person. I know that</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> you know the name Ron Kathren</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">, or have come across Ron</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> Kathren. And Ron Kathren</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> became my officemate there. He didn't have the clearance. So I got to be in places</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">work things that he wasn't able to</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">w</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ell, he was eventually,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> I mean, he got the clearance also.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And of course, late in my career</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">like when I went to Philadelphia, I didn't need a clearance back there. And when</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I came back, yes, I had to get my clearance re-instituted in Livermore, because Livermore is still very much</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">involved with weaponry, or at least the development of materials. And so yes, clearance. But fortunately, I didn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">have an issue, and because I had had it really at the beginning when I went to grad school, that didn't impact me.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And some of my site visits at Oak</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> R</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">idge</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> I had to have special clearance to get into some of the places. One of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">things I didn't mention, and I should, I got involved in the decommissioning. And of course, that was the activity</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">with Bechtel Hanford. But the other thing I got involved in was what we call development of an emergency</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">assessment resource manual. We called it HEARM, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> they called—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">because I was working with some gals, too, that was my</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">harem. But it was Hanford Emergency Assessment Resource Manual.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Well, our sponsor at DOE headquarters began to see the utility of that at some of the other DOE sites. So we went</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">to Livermore, we wen</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">t to Los Alamos, we went to Oak R</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">idge, we went to Savannah River. We developed those</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">same manuals for these other sites. And basically what it was </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span class="SpellingError SCX251492516">was</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> an identification of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">a safety assessment.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And DOE was forcing all to look at the safety of their business. And if something went wrong, how bad could it be?</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">So that's what this manual was, was to identify the facilities and the materials. It was structured originally about</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">radiation, but it became clear that there were also hazardous chemicals and other materials that needed to be of</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">concern. And if they had an explosion, if they had a venting, they had a situation, where would that stuff go?</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">So we developed this. We looked at site boundaries. How far to the site boundary, in what directions, look at wind</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">speeds, all of that. So we combined all of that into a manual so that we could use that here at Hanford, call</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ed</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Unified Dose Assessment Center, UDAC.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And that provided a tool so when an emergency occurred, we</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> knew we</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> had an indication of how bad it could be. We could</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">flip to the page that was Building XYZ, and we could say, ah, this really is not likely to be any kind of an issue. Or</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">just the opposite, that it was an ABC, it was the top priority, the most hazardous materials on the site handled in</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">that building. And what were the projected, from the safety assessments, for the actual use of those facilities?</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And so that was an exciting kind of thing, because we got into sites where they had more security need than what</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I had to do for those. And so yes, we got into those. Matter of fact, some of the materials that we developed were</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">basically classified information on how much material is in this building, where is this building relative to the site,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and so on. So those kind of things we had to tone down, we had to talk about and find ways. And they became,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">essentially, not top secret, but at least they were less.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And so we provided not only these manuals for right here, but also DOE headquarters got the same copies. So</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">whenever something was going wrong, they're evaluating what's happening out here, or from Livermore, or from</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Sandy, or Savannah River, or one of the other sites.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">So yes,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> that was</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> the emergency management aspect. And Battelle, that was one of the things that I moved from that</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">development into working with the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Battelle had a contract for the 60 nuclear power plants to do emergency</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">exercises. And I even got involved with my wife with the Red Cross, because Red Cross would get involved in</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">emergency exercises, especially for the supply system here. And I remember Mesa School was the first one.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And so I got a couple of my health physics buddies, and we </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">would go and be the consultants. B</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ecause the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">farmers would come in and say, well, what should I do? My cows are out there on this potentially contaminated</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ground. What do I need to do? This was just</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">these were what-if type exercises. So that was an aspect I guess I</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">just had passed over and forgotten all about. So even had a</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">n involvement with my wife </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">indirectly because of</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">So with these nuclear sites, I got involved as an evaluator to go out either for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">or DOE, and evaluate these exercises. So I was involved not in developing those exercises, but evaluating and</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">being there on site.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And also, as </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">a result, I got to go to the Kennedy Space Center and involved in a couple of spacecraft launches</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">that had nuclear materials. And so that was exciting, paid to go. And also got involved in many cancellations. You</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">know, weather didn't turn out right, we'd get thunderstorms or a rain, and you'd have to wait it out for a few more</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">days. Those sort of things.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Galileo, I think, was the one major one that we were sending heat sources, radioactive sources into space, so if</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">they were to have</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> aborted</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">not for reentry, but on the launch, that's why we were there, to take air samples,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">you know, we were teams spread out. So there's another aspect I'd forgotten about.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Arata</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Very cool. You had this</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> multiplicity of great jobs, it sounds like, throughout the course of your career here. Is there anything</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">that stands out as being the most challenging or the most rewarding?</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Denham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Well, I think the challenge came later in the career when</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">as I mentioned, that Battelle was going off in a research</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">wing, and that wasn't where my expertise and my capabiliti</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">es were. And so a challenge to—i</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">f I'm not going to stick</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">around, what am I going to do? B</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ecause nuclear power was obviously diminishing with time, especially when you</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">get up in the 90s, and so on.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">So that became one of the challenges, if I were to retire, what would I do? I </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">was young enough, late '50s</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">, I didn't need to retire that early. And the other side, the side as I shared, I think sort of the three or four</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">major things that I was involved in that I very much enjoyed, one</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and I haven't shared this directly</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I was</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">involved with Joe Soledad.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And I don't know whether you've interviewed Joe, but I know Joe's been interviewed. I just don't know who were</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">involved. But Joe was developing all the criteria to evaluate all these radionuclides that had been released here in</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Hanford, had been released at other sites, or could be</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">weren't necessarily all released, but I mean, if they got</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">into the environment and got into people, what kind of doses could those--Well, I was involved with Joe as my mentor. I developed the numbers that went in</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—i</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">n other words, I looked at the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">decay schemes of each of those radionuclides and then built the numbers that would go into the equations. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">didn't develop the equations for how much got into the human body, but I developed if you had radioiodine, or you</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">had strontium, or you had cesium, or you had plutonium, what could that mean inside the body?</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And so that was a great opportunity that I had developi</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ng those, because those became—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">a</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">nd still used today—a</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ll</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">that environmental pathway stuff that Joe had developed is still in use today, used by the EPA, the Nuclear</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Regulatory Commission.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Yeah, they've added more materials and modified things a bit. But the modifications are more related to, now,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">more knowledge about some of those decay schemes and so on, but that impact. So that was one of the exciting</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">things.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">The criticality safety manual. I get the manual done, and I got to move on to something else, because once you've</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">developed the manual, unless you're using it</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">yes, I was. I was out evaluating criticality safety. I was auditing,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">basically. Oh, t</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">hat was, yeah, I could do it, but it was more fun to go out and get involved in the environmental</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">monitoring, choosing which sample, where to sample, what to analyze those samples for, and then write the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">report to show what this means impact-wise for the site.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Going from there, then, into developing what should an environmental monitoring program look like, either for a</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">nuclear power plant or a place like Hanford. That wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">s that exciting and thrilling, a</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">nd I felt I made a contribution.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And then to jump over into, now you understand that stuff, and now relate that to emergency preparedness and</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">evaluating emergency preparedness. Did you take into account?</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I will have to say, because I was involved in a course, and I've forgotten what the course was called, but it was at</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">the Nevada test site. And we were there--and I think it was only Hanford person there at the time. That's when I</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">was involved in emergency preparedness.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And this was a course to really walk us through scenarios and situations, and see the mistakes we could make.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">We could walk over a wire on the ground that we shouldn't have because it was live, or could've been live, and not</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">recognizing that. You're taking </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">an action for what you see in front of you, but then missing out on something that</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">you shouldn't have done as part of that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And that became part of our evaluation, when we looked at mistakes they would make, not take an air sample, or</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">take it where it shouldn't have been. You should have taken it over here instead of over there, you know, those</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">kind of things. So was able to use all that background and material that I had had as part of my career.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I feel like, yes, had I started over today, I think I would've probably gone the environmental, but more from an</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">atmospheric and understanding weather. That was an interest as a kid. I've watched</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">this is before television</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and I would pay attention to the thermometer and what was going on. Is it going to snow tomorrow, or that kind of</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">thing.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">But otherwise, no, it was great. And the courses and the opportunities afforded by this diverse kind of a field, that</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">when I came, and when I was a health physicist, I didn't k</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">now what a health physicist was, but</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> I think I have a pretty</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">good idea today.</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Arata</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">So obviously, a lot of my students n</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ow were born after the Cold War.</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Denham</span>: Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Arata</span>: They</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> don't really understand that time period.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Is there anything you'd like for future generations who may be watching this video to know about what it was like</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">to work during that time period and contribute to that effort?</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Denham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Well, obviously, one of the things, being here in Hanford, was because we had all these reactors operating, which</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">meant that there was always contamination going into the river, contamination going into the ground.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Reprocessing was occurring</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> but was stopped at a time period. So then we had to</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and of course, today we still</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">hear about whether it's from the west side or else around the country. Even our own family ask questions. What</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">about the leaking tanks? What does that mean? And from my perspective, I have an idea what that means.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And I think I look at it in a lot different mindset, because I know that yes, it's of concern, and it should be. But on</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">the other hand, it's not going to kill me. It's not going to give me a dose that I won't want to stay here, I won't want</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">to live here. And because, like I said, in the older days, when all the reactors were operating and so on, we had a</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">lot more radioactivity to deal with.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">But Joe's equation</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Joe Soledad</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">those pathway formulas and equations and so on that we used, we proved</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">with that that hey, yes, there is material out there. It's of low consequence to you and me as residents of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">community. And I think that that was probably a kind of thing that we</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">the scientists, let's say, the science side</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">were not very successful in communicating that to the public.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And I don't think we are today. B</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ecause I can remember one of my daughter's friends, when they had the different</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">kinds of sweeteners, and they would say no, we're going to cut those off. And so when her dad worked in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">grocery business, he could bring that stuff home, and no, I don't think we want to use that. Again, uninformed</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">about those kind of things</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">. And I think that's the aspect—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">that we get a bug, a thought of what an impact could be,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">and yet we don't know the whole story. And I know I tried, but on the other hand, that wasn't my role particularly.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">But I was aware.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And I think that, looking today, we look at so many more things today in terms of hurtful environmental impact</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">kinds of things. I'm thinking just the environmental movement, if you will, because our daughter-in-law is very</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">much involved there, and her daughter is now in college and looking in that same arena. The other daughter-in</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">-</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">law</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">down in New </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Mexico, that</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> was one of her areas of interest. And she studied bugs and insects and that sort</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">of thing. Today she's not using that, because she's really into health and doing private yoga and exercise training.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">But the Cold War meant that</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">well, that's where it was nice when I got to go the other sites, because that allowed</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">me to kind of see, and to put all this together as </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">an </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">understanding</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> of</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> the whole package, and not just what's happening</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">in Han</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ford or what's happening at Oak R</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">idge or whatever, to be able to realize that probably some choices</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">mean, </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">the </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">making the choice here</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> of </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Hanford, I think, was a wonderful choice. Choosing this remote location</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">it's not so</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">remote today, but I think it was an excellent</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">from all the material, all the information we knew at the time.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And yet places like Savannah River, where you've got all kinds of groundwater and all kinds of those kind of</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">issues, maybe that wasn't such a good place, where the ability of stuff to move would be greater than a place like</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">this. And I think what we saw, and what I remember just f</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">rom the public, my own families—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">our own families would</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ask questions, which was very reasonable.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And I think the understanding</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—and </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">we've been watching</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I'm digressing for a second, but we've been</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">watching the P</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">residential wives series on television, so we're going back over the history and seeing some of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">things that were going on as this whole business developed in our lifetime, things that we didn't realize, because</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">some was top secret, not shared. And of course, I was perfectly happy to work in a closed environment, where</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">you didn't share everything you did.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">For someone tod</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ay, I think that the question</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> aspect of business, and for the future, is always question what</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">you're doing, how can it impact the environment, how can it impact people, how can it impact you yourself?</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Cellphones, all kinds of things that we use and are in use daily, but do we really know what the long-term impacts</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">of these devices are? I think for the moment we feel quite certain t</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">hat we're not creating monster issues that become-- </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">But I like the environmental movement, because I kind of put my life together around that, an interest in seeing</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">that we're doing the right things to keep us safe, and yet not say, you can't do that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And of course, the environmental impact statement business. I was involved partly in that too, in helping develop</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">those. I guess my last one that I was involved in was in Tennessee, for the Tennessee Valley Authority, because</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">they were going wide with lots of nuclear. And that was in the '90s, as I</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> recall, when I went down there and</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> was</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">involved.</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Arata</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Is there anything I haven't asked you about that you'd like to tell us about? Any other stories that stand out?</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Denham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Well, of course, we did have accidents. We had things that</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">yeah, I got involved in a cleanup in the 3</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">00 Area</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">where an underground pipe had broken. And this was americium, was a principal nuclide that had gotten into the</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ground. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">we ended up digging that all up. B</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ut just chasing it, deciding where to sample, and digging up and</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">then discovering, oh, the pipe is all corroded. So yes, everything that went down that drain.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And so those kinds of things, I really enjoyed those, because you were evaluating a condition that was really an</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">unknown. And I think that's part of what the environmental restoration contract</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">the Bechtel work that I was</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">involved in, we were doing some of that, too, because we were making measurements and then determining, did</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">those measurements give us what we need to know so that we can take the appropriate steps for remediation?</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And so I think that aspect, so to speak, of research piece might have been</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">if I were to start again, I might be</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">more interested in research. But at the time, I was more interested in what we need to know so that we can take</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">the right steps to move forward.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I think that those are my observations. I was an enthusiastic worker. I just loved the opportunity and the people to</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">work with. And we did a lot of group things. You know, I can remember bac</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">k in the old days, Ron Kathren</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> and I</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">would have an equation on the blackboard we were trying to solve, and then leave it up there for a</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">while with</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">getting more information to make things fit. You took the information you had.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">And I was successful, probably published about, I don't know, 50 different papers in Health Physics Journal. And I</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">also was involved in the Society for Radiological Protection in the British Isles. I gave two different presentations</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">over there in the '80s and '90s, which is always nice to go and experience others. I had even looked at that as a</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">possible exchange.</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Denham</span>: And as a result of those visits, I got invited to go to the Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna and work on an</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">environmental plan with folks from all over the world. And we had interpreters, because we had Russians, and we</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">had Canadians, and we had French and Germans. And so</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> on—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">all that was nice. And they paid my way, and I got to</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">spend</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">matter of fact, I made two trips in the same year on that activity. I had a third one, but the Department of</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Energy wouldn't allow me to go on the third one.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">So that adds to your enjoyment, your understanding and working with people who have come from different</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">places, and yet have similar issues and proble</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">ms, and how are you addressing—</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">especially when we're trying to</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">write a manual, an international manual that would be used wherever, in developing countries as well as</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">advanced countries and so on, to protect people in the environment.</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Arata</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Is there anything else at all?</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Denham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Not that's coming to me at this point. </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">[LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">I'm just delighted to have had this opportunity to share with you, even though</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">it's </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">very</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> uncoordinated.</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> I certainly rambled.</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Arata</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">No, that was wonderful. You gave us some great detail</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">s. That’s always</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> exciting for us to hear about. And I want to</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">thank you so much for sharing with us. We really appreciate you taking time out.</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Denham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">Well, Laura, it was a pleasure sharing with you and getting to know you. I wish you well in your</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">—</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Arata</span>: Thank you.</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX251492516"><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Denham</span>: --</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">future work and</span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX251492516">finishing your PhD. I never got there.</span><span class="EOP SCX251492516"> </span></p>
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Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
01:06:42
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
5261 kbps
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
300 area.
Bechtel Hanford
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1947-2013
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1961-1995
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Parker, Herb
Kathren, Ron
Soldat, Joe
Carter, Jimmy
Junkins, Bob
McCreedy, Clarence
Mitchell, Dean
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Dale Denham
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Dale Denham conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
12/12/2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
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video/mp4
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-05-24: Metadata v1 created – [J.G]
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Nuclear weapons plants--Environmental aspects--Washington (State)--Hanford Site.
Nuclear weapons plants--Waste disposal--Environmental aspects--Washington (State)--Hanford Site.
Nuclear instruments & methods
Richland (Wash.)
Kennewick (Wash.)
300 Area
Battelle (Wash.)
Bechtel Hanford
Kennewick (Wash.)
Livermore
Los Alamos
Oakridge
Richland (Wash.)
Savannah River